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Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROPA09

Policy, Mutual Transfer, Joining Time.
mbhunia
Posts: 86
Joined: 24 Jun 2012, 16:09

Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROPA09

Postby mbhunia » 08 Aug 2012, 12:32

I transfered to another school through ssc on 5.11. 2008 after working as an a.t since 22.7.02. I was in 6000--12000 scale in both school. Now whether my appointment on 5.11.08 will be treated as fresh (new) and pay as entry level pay as per ropa 2009 or date of option and then refixation will be done? I was transfered with service continuation.
Mr.M.Bhunia

donyi_polo
Posts: 802
Joined: 10 Aug 2012, 15:27

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby donyi_polo » 20 Aug 2012, 13:52

Since it's a case of continuity of service from once school to another you are not at all a "fresh appointee" in school service. So, there is no question of entry level pay. This is just a change of place of posting involving no change in post and scale. Your pay will be fixed under ROPA Rules 2009 with reference to the last pay drawn under ROPA,1998 if it is not already fixed in old school. In that case you may exercise the option for date of fixation of pay under ROPA,2009. Your case is similar to that of my wife who was an AT (Hons./PG) in an aided school since Dec.,2002 and switched over to another aided school in the same post in Oct.,2009 through another SSC selection, with continuity of service benefits. Her last pay drawn in old school continued in new school. LPC was issued & Service Book was transferred from old school to new school and subsequently approved by the new D.I.

mbhunia
Posts: 86
Joined: 24 Jun 2012, 16:09

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby mbhunia » 21 Aug 2012, 19:05

thanks a lot. Your wife was transferred after ropa 2009 publication. But I was in one school from 22.7.02 to 4.11.08 (ROPA 2009 was published in Feb 2009 w.e.f 1.1.06) and then from 5.11.08 to 10.7.12 in another school. I excercised my option from 2nd school & my date of option is 1.1.06. Now, the D.I opined that as I was not appointed in 2nd school on 1.1.06, the pay refixation must be done from my 1st school. But seniors clerks,H.Ms and even dealing A.I said that ,if a school once issue an L.P.C , the concerned teacher can not get any financial benefit from there. Do you have the G.O. in this regard? Kindly upload it.
Mr.M.Bhunia

donyi_polo
Posts: 802
Joined: 10 Aug 2012, 15:27

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby donyi_polo » 22 Aug 2012, 01:21

It's APPARENTLY a complicated situation. Administrative problem. It has a lot of similarity with my own case when I changed job from one central govt. deptt. to the higher post in another central govt. deptt. in Oct.,2009 with continuity of service benefits. The LPC & the certified copy of the Service Book (with up-to-date entries) were supplied to the new deptt.. Original S/Book was not initially transferred as I was released from old deptt. on grant of lien (for 2 years). My new deptt. was not able to fix my pay in higher pay band & grade pay w.e.f. the date of appointment in new service as the original Service Book was not made available to them from old deptt. After about one year, my old deptt. re-fixed my pay in old scale (pay band & GP) w.e.f. 01.01.2006 under the order of Finance Ministry and disbursed the consequential arrear to me. My last pay which was shown in LPC was consequently enhanced. Thereafter, the old deptt. intimated everything along with refixation order, arrear computation sheet, I/Tax deduction (on arrear), the modified last pay (and not the LPC) and most imporatantly the original S/Book to the new deptt. for further re-fixation of pay in higher scale (PB & GP) with reference to the modified last pay. My new deptt., on receiving all the documents (except LPC), refixed my pay in higher scale (new) w.e.f. the date of appointment in new service and released arrear to me. Pls note the following vital points:
(1) LPC once issued from old deptt. was not issued to the new deptt. for the second time after refixation.

(2) New deptt. could not fix the pay in higher scale w.e.f. the date of appointment in new service soon after my joining because the original S/Book was not available to them. They did not have scope to record new pay in the certified copy of S/Book,
(3) The new deptt. refixed pay in higher scale only when original S/Book and other documents (and not LPC) were transferred to them,
(4) Now see, my old deptt. took the responsibility of first phase of re-fixation w.e.f. 01.01.2006 and, thereafter on 01.07.2006 (annual increment), 01.07.2007, 01.07.2008 & 01.07.2009 AS MY ORIGINAL SERVICE BOOK WAS RETAINED TO THEM AT THAT TIME ( and not merely because of the fact that I rendered my service there during that time, that is to say my administrative & financial control were there that time).
(5) They did not supply 2nd LPC to the new deptt. because this is LAST pay CERTIFICATE.

(6) For the purpose of fixation of pay the essential document is the original Service Book (and not LPC) where the new pay is recorded along with fixation order/form after through verification of service and previous pays. LPC is relied upon only for continuation of pay and deductions from one office/deptt. to another and not for fixation.

I differ in opinion with both the parties - old school and new school. Original S/Book (and not LPC) is the most essential document for fixation of pay. So, whoever is the custodian of your original S/Book is required to take the responsibility of pay fixation and making necessary entries (in S/Book) under proper attestation. Your new school shall have sufficient scope to verify your past service, previous pays etc. prior to fixation if original service book is supplied to them by old school. If the service book still lies with old school, it is their responsibility to fix pay for the period you served there (i.e. till 04.11.08). It is not true that their obligations end up with the issuance of LPC. After doing fixation and making all the up-to-date entries they shall transfer S/book to the new school for further necessary actions. But, from your communications it seems that your S/Book is now with the new school. If so, it is now their responsibility to fix your pay.

It is an old and common exercise. We have to search old G.Os./ rules. Everything is not always mentioned in a comprehensive manner in a single G.O./ rule. Several rules/G.Os are taken into consideration to understand the merit of the case/situation and to find out proper solutions. Many official works are done on the basis of some ACCEPTED NORMS which vary from office to office in absence of straight-forward rules or clarifications. If possible, pls see the rules & standard guidelines for maintenance of service books and verification of services of employees in govt. offices for your reference.
Pls get it clarified from Audit Officers/ DDOs etc., if scope is available to you.
Best wishes.

mbhunia
Posts: 86
Joined: 24 Jun 2012, 16:09

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby mbhunia » 25 Aug 2012, 19:58

Thanks a lot.What is PAY PROTECTION?
Mr.M.Bhunia

donyi_polo
Posts: 802
Joined: 10 Aug 2012, 15:27

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby donyi_polo » 26 Aug 2012, 01:05

Dear friend, "pay protection" means carry forward of your pay last drawn by you on the date of relief from old deptt. to the new deptt.. Such pay protection is allowed by the new deptt. when you change job with permission from old deptt. and there is no change in the scale of pay in the new service i.e. the employee joins a new post having SAME DUTY & RESPONSIBILITY AS THAT OF OLD POST. For examle, an employee entitled to draw last pay @ Rs15000 and GP @ Rs.4800 in PB-4 in one state govt. deptt. joins a post carrying GP Rs 4800 in PB-4 in another service in a new deptt. his initial pay would also be @Rs 15000 and GP @Rs 4800 in PB-4 with effect from the date of appointment in new service. So, his pay drawn in old deptt. is protected in new deptt. (last pay in old deptt. = first pay in new deptt.). But, if the scale of pay in new service is HIGHER because OF HIGHER DUTY & RESPONSIBILITY, then his pay will be "fixed" at higher figure in new scale under relevant rules. Anyway, pay protection is also one kind of pay fixation which takes place in identical scales.
Good luck!

kayshikr
Posts: 101
Joined: 11 Jan 2012, 20:50

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby kayshikr » 26 Aug 2012, 11:47

@ mnabendu: in continuation of your earlier post, I have a question, it goes like this: Before 6cpc of the central govt, a govt servant was working in a certain department in the pre revised pay scale of 8000-13500, appointed through UPSC, his date of appointment in the first service was 1.11.2003. His pay was fixed in the revised pay scale w.e.f 1.1.2006 in PB-3, GP-5400, he got confirmed in his service on 1.11.2005.He again got selected for another group-A service of the central govt. through UPSC and joined in the new service on 10.04 2006, tendering technical resignation. Before 6cpc his pay in the new service would have been protected, but in 6 CPC there is a separate table for fixation of pay for new entrants where minimum entry pay has been given for each grade pay for new entrants who have joined in service on or after 1.1.2006. My question is whether this person is entitled to this entry pay or pay protection benefit, Please also consider another case with same situation only difference being his first appointment was in Gr-B service in the pre revised scale starting from 7500-12000 in that case earlier (before 6cpc) his pay in new post used to be fixed by application of FR 22-1 (a) i.

donyi_polo
Posts: 802
Joined: 10 Aug 2012, 15:27

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby donyi_polo » 26 Aug 2012, 13:22

Just excellent question! I APPRECIATE!
I am really thrilled to have taken part actively in this forum. I want more questions from you all, especially from the teachers who are the most sufferers. Actually my participation in this forum is not for my benefit but for the interest of my wife who also changed job of Asst. Teacher (Hons./PG) from one aided school to another in Oct.,2009 like me! Started PhD course in old school in yr 2004 with prior permission from MC, submitted thesis in 2008 under intimation to D.I. while in old school but, received PhD award in Sept2010 i.e. while in service in new school. Now my responsibility is to help her get the double increments.
Anyway, let me take up the matter with you but, after lunch break! I have this experience as I was appointed to Gr-B Gazetted post carrying scale Rs 7500-12000 in central govt. service,through UPSC in Nov., 2000. I changed job to Gr-A Gazetted post (GP 5400 in PB-3: 15600-39100) in Oct.2009 again through UPSC securing all India 2nd rank in our service. My pay was fixed, refixed and again refixed (three times fixation) with effect from 01.01.2006 because of change of scale twice in parent deptt. and once in new deptt. Moreover, I was a member of the committee for fixation of pay and preparation of arrears of the employees in my previous office on the basis of the 6th CPC recommendations.
If you have finished lunch pls start thinking:
WHAT IS PROMOTION?
HOW DOES IT BENEFIT AN EMPLOYEE?
WHAT IS SERVICE CONTINUATION? HOW DOES IT BENEFIT?
DIFFERENCE AMONGST "DIRECT RECRUIT", "FRESH RECRUIT" AND "PROMOTEE"
DIFFERENCE in cent. govt. pay fixation rules FR 22 I(a)(1), 22 I(a)(2) ! AND their applications!
I will certainly get back to you at the earliest,
till then, bye.

donyi_polo
Posts: 802
Joined: 10 Aug 2012, 15:27

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby donyi_polo » 26 Aug 2012, 19:33

Friend "kayshikr",
Let me know why have u mentioned the date of confirmation (01.11.2005) of the GS. Do u believe that the regularisation and/or fixation of pay is always related to the confirmation in service? This is true only for the govt. servants joining another central govt. service as PROBATIONER, with past service benefits and remain on probation for initial two years. Their pay is regulated by FR 22B during probationary period and thereafter by FR22I(a)(1) or FR22I(a)(2), as the case may be. This is NOT applicable for other officers who are appointed in the central govt. service on temporary basis and required to remain ON PROBATION for initial two years. Their pay in probationary period is fixed under FR22I(a)(1) or FR22I(a)(2), as the case may be.

Now let us work out as follows:
Case 1:
Gr-A officer who has been in central govt. service, with scale of pay Rs 8000-13000 w.e.f. 01.11.03, has got his pay fixed w.e.f. 01.01.2006 under the 6th CPC.

(a) In case he is appointed to another Gr-A post under cent. govt., with entitlement to the benefits of past service, his last pay so fixed w.e.f. 01.01.2006 in previous deptt would be REFIXED AT HIGHER FIGURE by allowing notional increment (3%) if the new Gr-A post carries DUTIES & RESPONSIBILITIES of GREATER IMPORTANCE ( as GENERALLY indicated by HIGHER scale of pay). So, re-fixation of pay w.e.f. the date of joining i.e. 10.04.2006 in new service. But no annual increment shall be allowed on 01.07.2006. Pay shall be fixed under FR 22 I(a)(1) read with Rule 13(i) of CCS (RP) Rule ,2008. Such kind of case is treated as “as good as promotion”. This not a true promotional case as the govt. servant is not promoted to the higher post through the Departmental Promotion Committee. That’s why he can’t exercise the option for date of fixation. See proviso to FR 22 I(A)(1).

(b) If he is appointed to another Gr-A post under cent. govt., with entitlement to the benefits of past service, his last pay so fixed w.e.f. 01.01.2006 in previous deptt would REMAIN TO BE UNCHANGED (“PROTECTED”) if the new Gr-A post carries DUTIES & RESPONSIBILITIES of EQUAL IMPORTANCE ( as GENERALLY indicated by identical scale of pay). So, no pay fixation in new service. Only protection is allowed. Pay is regulated by FR 22 I(a)(2).
This is the difference in the application of FR 22 I(a)(1) & FR 22 I(a)(2) – first one for taking over of charge of higher post (like promotion) and, 2nd for taking over charge of a post meant for same duty & responsibility.

Case 2:
When the govt. servant initially joined the Gr-B post carrying scale Rs 7500-12000 (revised as GP 4800 in PB-2: Rs 9300-34800) on 01.11.03 and was appointed to a Gr-A post carrying GP 5400 in PB-3 (Rs 15600-39100) through UPSC w.e.f. 10.04.2006. Fixation procedure is same as illustrated in Case 1 (a). Fixation under FR 22I(a)(1) as he joins higher post with continuity of service benefits.

It is now clarified that since he is selected by UPSC on the basis of open competition he is, of course, a DIRECT RECRUIT but, not a FRESH RECRUIT as this is NOT HIS FIRST APPOINTMENT IN GOVT. SERVICE – he is NOT A NEW ENTRANT IN GOVT. SERVICE after 01.01.2006. He appeared before UPSC as a GOVT. CANDIDATE, under intimation to his deptt. (for UPSC selection, applications need not be forwarded through proper channel). This is his SECOND APPOINTMENT in govt. service. So, all the service benefits shall be allowed to him as per rules. Now u think, what’s the use of service continuity if pay is not protected or hiked in new service! What’s the use of change of job if there is no additional benefits! Is it that changing a job in govt. deptt. through UPSC/ any such authority is a punishment! Is it justified! Is it permitted by any financial rules of the govt.! Why to take so much of pain for forwarding the application through proper channel ! So, the concept of “entry level pay” has no application here b’coz he entered govt. service on 01.11.03 when he got the entry level pay.
In such cases all the benefits which are attached to the normal transfer case are also allowed to the govt. servants who change job with past service benefits.

U have seen Rule 8 on page 39 in Part-II, Secn-3 in EXTRAORDINARY. Pls again see the Memorandum of explanations of Rule 8 on page 61 of the same Notification. Concentrate on the phrase “Fresh recruit” which does not always correspond to the meaning of "Direct recruit".

Pls go by the logic and not always by the literal meaning. Adjudge the situation. Consider “sthaan”, “kaal”, & “ patro”. This is called MERIT OF THE CASE which is of prime importance in context of operation of rules. Pay commission is not wrong, our understanding of the application of Rule 8 is wrong that is to say, we could not understand the merit of the rule..

In my case, I joined Gr-B Gazetted post (Rs 7500-12000) in Nov.2000 through UPSC. As usual, my pay drawn under 5th CPC was fixed in old service at Rs “X” in GP 4800 in PB-2 w.e.f. 01.01.2006 on the basis of fitment table, on the 6th CPC recommendations. As per special provision of 6th CPC the officers drawing pay in the scale Rs 7500-12000 are eligible to get scale 8000-13500 (non-functional basis) after completion of 4 years of regular service ( not a MACP). Since I completed 4 yrs of regular service in 2004 and implementation of 6th CPC took effect from 01.01.06 my pay was refixed at Rs “Y” with GP 5400 in PB-2 (and not in PB-3) with reference to the previously fixed pay Rs. X & GP 4800, by allowing one increment w.e.f. 01.01.2006. So, new pay Rs. Y = (Rs X + 4800)x3%. I joined new Gr-A service in Oct.2009 with past service benefits, in the pay structure of GP 5400 & PB-3 (15600-39100). Since it was a change of job from Gr-B to Gr-A service involving assumption of HIGHER DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES in new post, my last pay drawn in the previous office, say Rs “Y4”, was again fixed at Rs. “Z” by allowing one increment (3%) on (Rs Y4 + 5400) with effect from the date of joining (08.10.09) the Gr-A service. It is also there in the rule that pay is to be fixed if there is change of either the Grade Pay or the Pay Band.
It means my pay was fixed on three occasions – at the time of conversion from 5th CPC to 6th CPC w.e.f. 01.01.06, refixation of newly fixed pay under 6th CPC again w.e.f. 01.01.06 due to change of GP from 4800 to 5400 in PB-2 and, finally w.e.f. 08.10.2009 (date of appointment in new Gr-A service) due to change of job to higher post and Pay Band (PB-3) though there was no change of Grade Pay (5400).

If promotion takes place in identical GP and PB, pay is again fixed in the same scale by increasing notionally to give financial benefits because of ASSUMPTION OF DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES OF GREATER IMPORTANCE in higher post. For example, when Sr. Accounts Officers (Group-B Gazetted post with GP 5400 in PB-3 and not PB-2) of Indian P & T Accts., Finance Service, Defence Accts. are promoted to Group-A Gazetted post carrying GP 5400 in PB-3 (i.e. identical pay scale) they also get one notional increment under FR 22I(a)(1) because of change of position from Group-B Gazetted to Group-A Gazetted involving assumption of higher duties and responsibilities though there is change of neither PB nor GP.

Therefore, promotion means increase of duties and responsibilities and hence, financial benefit is allowed irrespective of the fact that whether or not the employee was drawing pay in lower or identical pay structure in lower post.Thanks for giving me the opportunity to share my knowledge and experience with you and, I will be really happy if it can benefit you in future. More interactions expected especially from "som" and "nemo" who only assign reputation points from the background. Ha-Ha -Ha!!

som
Posts: 1575
Joined: 19 Dec 2011, 07:08

Re: Transfer through ssc in 2008 and pay fixation as per ROP

Postby som » 26 Aug 2012, 22:00

Just amazing!!! Thank you so much for all these nice posts and I must say "Ye dil mange more" :) It will definetly help all of us to improve our knowledge. This topic has now became so importent though the matter of Pay protection trends to be little off topic. I think it would be better to create a new topic regarding pay protection and fixation which will help users to find out this importent discussion. I am very sorry to say you that I could not find and provide you the G.O.s for which you requested earlier in the link below. I request Admin and other members if someone can help you in this regard. Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. After all this is a nice place to know something and share something. What do you say? viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1048&p=4404#p4404
No more here. Find me at http://mywb.informe.com.


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